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Today's topics:
* Michael Pachter: Wii and Wii HD to be similar to PS2 / PS3 - 10 messages, 6
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http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.video.nintendo.wii/t/17376a8684dd4df2
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Michael Pachter: Wii and Wii HD to be similar to PS2 / PS3
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.video.nintendo.wii/t/17376a8684dd4df2
==============================================================================
== 1 of 10 ==
Date: Mon 27 Jul 2009 17:22
From: parallax-scroll
On Jul 27, 4:38 pm, The alMIGHTY N <natle...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jul 27, 1:09 pm, parallax-scroll <parallaxscr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Analyst: Wii and Wii HD Will Be Similar to PS2/PS3
>
> > A "Wii HD" has been one of the longest swirling rumors in the
> > business, and one analyst in particular has touted its feasibility
> > more than most: Wedbush Securites Analyst Michael Pachter. Late last
> > month the analyst released a brief on the industry, where he predicted
> > that a Wii HD would be coming:
>
> > "We expect Nintendo to sustain [their] competitive advantage by
> > introducing a high definition version of the Wii, perhaps as early as
> > the end of 2010, in order to convert its large installed base into
> > true 'next-generation' households," Pachter said in June.
>
> > How, if Nintendo intends to do this, would they market this new high-
> > definition device? Would they phase out the current Wii system, or
> > treat the upgrade much in the same vein as the DS,DS Liteand DSi?
> > Neither, Pachter told us — look at the Wii and Wii HD as the
> >PlayStation 2andPlayStation 3.
>
> > "Of course, it's just speculation," Pachter prefaced in an e-mail to
> > EndSights, "but I see them having two consoles in the market at once,
> > more like PS2 and PS3. They will likely try to get consumers to trade
> > up to the Wii Plus while still selling the Wii for $100 cheaper."
>
> >http://www.endsights.com/2009/07/24/analyst-wii-and-wii-hd-will-be-si...
>
> The comparison to thePlayStation 2andPlayStation 3doesn't make any
> sense unless the Wii HD is truly a next-generation version of the Wii
> with serious upgrades (aside from just going to 720p or 1080p).
Wii HD's graphical horsepower is supposed to be MORE than just the Wii
(which is basicly a faster GameCube with more RAM) doing native HD
resolution. The leap from Wii to Wii HD is meant to be a leap like
going from GameBoy to GameBoy Advance or NES to SNES. or PS2 to
PS3.
Nintendo has apparently increased its R&D spending massively, since
after the Wii was released. This is not proof, but a fairly credible
report, one NOT by Pachter: http://www.whattheyplay.com/blog/2008/09/30/new-wii-due-by-2011/
== 2 of 10 ==
Date: Tues 28 Jul 2009 09:21
From: The alMIGHTY N
On Jul 27, 8:22 pm, parallax-scroll <parallaxscr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 27, 4:38 pm, The alMIGHTY N <natle...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jul 27, 1:09 pm, parallax-scroll <parallaxscr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Analyst: Wii and Wii HD Will Be Similar to PS2/PS3
>
> > > A "Wii HD" has been one of the longest swirling rumors in the
> > > business, and one analyst in particular has touted its feasibility
> > > more than most: Wedbush Securites Analyst Michael Pachter. Late last
> > > month the analyst released a brief on the industry, where he predicted
> > > that a Wii HD would be coming:
>
> > > "We expect Nintendo to sustain [their] competitive advantage by
> > > introducing a high definition version of the Wii, perhaps as early as
> > > the end of 2010, in order to convert its large installed base into
> > > true 'next-generation' households," Pachter said in June.
>
> > > How, if Nintendo intends to do this, would they market this new high-
> > > definition device? Would they phase out the current Wii system, or
> > > treat the upgrade much in the same vein as the DS,DS Liteand DSi?
> > > Neither, Pachter told us — look at the Wii and Wii HD as the
> > >PlayStation 2andPlayStation 3.
>
> > > "Of course, it's just speculation," Pachter prefaced in an e-mail to
> > > EndSights, "but I see them having two consoles in the market at once,
> > > more like PS2 and PS3. They will likely try to get consumers to trade
> > > up to the Wii Plus while still selling the Wii for $100 cheaper."
>
> > >http://www.endsights.com/2009/07/24/analyst-wii-and-wii-hd-will-be-si...
>
> > The comparison to thePlayStation 2andPlayStation 3doesn't make any
> > sense unless the Wii HD is truly a next-generation version of the Wii
> > with serious upgrades (aside from just going to 720p or 1080p).
>
> Wii HD's graphical horsepower is supposed to be MORE than just the Wii
> (which is basicly a faster GameCube with more RAM) doing native HD
> resolution. The leap from Wii to Wii HD is meant to be a leap like
> going from GameBoy to GameBoy Advance or NES to SNES. or PS2 to
> PS3.
>
> Nintendo has apparently increased its R&D spending massively, since
> after the Wii was released. This is not proof, but a fairly credible
> report, one NOT by Pachter: http://www.whattheyplay.com/blog/2008/09/30/new-wii-due-by-2011/
Ah...
In that case, I say bring it on. The sooner, the better. Anything to
get the next generation started. If it arrives by 2011, that will only
be 5 years for Nintendo.
And you know that if Microsoft and Sony believe this, they'll
definitely be prepping their next generation consoles sooner rather
than later.
Suh-weet!
== 3 of 10 ==
Date: Tues 28 Jul 2009 10:43
From: Doug Jacobs
In alt.games.video.xbox parallax-scroll <parallaxscroll@gmail.com> wrote:
>> The comparison to thePlayStation 2andPlayStation 3doesn't make any
>> sense unless the Wii HD is truly a next-generation version of the Wii
>> with serious upgrades (aside from just going to 720p or 1080p).
>
> Wii HD's graphical horsepower is supposed to be MORE than just the Wii
> (which is basicly a faster GameCube with more RAM) doing native HD
> resolution. The leap from Wii to Wii HD is meant to be a leap like
> going from GameBoy to GameBoy Advance or NES to SNES. or PS2 to
> PS3.
But that still makes no sense because the games themselves are still in
480p and not even widescreen. So unless the Wii HD can somehow do some
fancy video magic to convert 4:3 480p to 16:9 1080p, I don't see what the
big deal is here. Even upscaling from 4:3 480p to 4:3 1080p isn't that
big of a deal. It'll look like an upscaled DVD which isn't as good as a
native HD source.
--
It's not broken. It's...advanced.
== 4 of 10 ==
Date: Tues 28 Jul 2009 11:23
From: Abo
Doug Jacobs wrote:
> In alt.games.video.xbox parallax-scroll <parallaxscroll@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> The comparison to thePlayStation 2andPlayStation 3doesn't make any
>>> sense unless the Wii HD is truly a next-generation version of the Wii
>>> with serious upgrades (aside from just going to 720p or 1080p).
>> Wii HD's graphical horsepower is supposed to be MORE than just the Wii
>> (which is basicly a faster GameCube with more RAM) doing native HD
>> resolution. The leap from Wii to Wii HD is meant to be a leap like
>> going from GameBoy to GameBoy Advance or NES to SNES. or PS2 to
>> PS3.
>
> But that still makes no sense because the games themselves are still in
> 480p and not even widescreen. So unless the Wii HD can somehow do some
> fancy video magic to convert 4:3 480p to 16:9 1080p, I don't see what the
> big deal is here. Even upscaling from 4:3 480p to 4:3 1080p isn't that
> big of a deal. It'll look like an upscaled DVD which isn't as good as a
> native HD source.
>
Surely when the new console comes out games will be written specifically
for it? What you're seem to be saying is akin to the PS3 being pointless
because there'll be no improvement to the PS2 games you already have...
== 5 of 10 ==
Date: Tues 28 Jul 2009 12:52
From: Doug Jacobs
In alt.games.video.xbox Abo <no@spam.thanks> wrote:
>> But that still makes no sense because the games themselves are still in
>> 480p and not even widescreen. So unless the Wii HD can somehow do some
>> fancy video magic to convert 4:3 480p to 16:9 1080p, I don't see what the
>> big deal is here. Even upscaling from 4:3 480p to 4:3 1080p isn't that
>> big of a deal. It'll look like an upscaled DVD which isn't as good as a
>> native HD source.
>>
> Surely when the new console comes out games will be written specifically
> for it? What you're seem to be saying is akin to the PS3 being pointless
> because there'll be no improvement to the PS2 games you already have...
That depends on the Wii HD's relationship with the existing Wii.
Remember, the Wii has only been out for 3 years this Christmas. If the
Wii HD is a completely new console that's meant to completely replace the
original Wii and make it obsolete, that's a REALLY short hardware
generation. It also means that if this is due out in 2010, we should
probably have seen something official from Nintendo by now. Look at the
PSP-Go, for instance. It's not even replacing the PSP and we've known
about it for over 6 months now (even though during 5 of them, it was just
a rumor ;)
So my assumption is that IF the Wii-HD is a real product - and I don't
think it is - it would be meant to co-exist with the Wii, not replace it.
This would make the Wii HD more like the DSi compared to the regular Wii
or DS Lite. Some new hardware, some new capabilities, but essentially the
same platform.
But this is where I wonder what would that mean for the games? Clearly
the Wii-HD will have to be compatible with all existing Wii games. But
what about future titles? Would we see Wii HD-only or HD-enhanced titles
released, as we will see for the DSi? Will older titles get re-released
in HD so that they finally support widescreen?
Introducing a second console that's meant to "sit next to" an existing
console is just going to confuse the public, and honestly, I don't see the
point. If the average gamer is now in his late 20s, and not even 30% of
gamers who own Gears Of War aren't using HD, what's the market for a Wii
HD going to be? Yeah, given the choice I'd probably buy this Wii-HD if it
came out, but I'd be just as happy with a plain old Wii - especially if
there weren't going to be any HD games or re-releases for it.
--
It's not broken. It's...advanced.
== 6 of 10 ==
Date: Tues 28 Jul 2009 14:15
From: "Tom"
"The alMIGHTY N" <natlee75@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:13ad5b05-07c2-45cc-b201-d81c4ce6a351@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 27, 8:22 pm, parallax-scroll <parallaxscr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Jul 27, 4:38 pm, The alMIGHTY N <natle...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Jul 27, 1:09 pm, parallax-scroll <parallaxscr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > Analyst: Wii and Wii HD Will Be Similar to PS2/PS3
>>
>> > > A "Wii HD" has been one of the longest swirling rumors in the
>> > > business, and one analyst in particular has touted its feasibility
>> > > more than most: Wedbush Securites Analyst Michael Pachter. Late last
>> > > month the analyst released a brief on the industry, where he
>> > > predicted
>> > > that a Wii HD would be coming:
>>
>> > > "We expect Nintendo to sustain [their] competitive advantage by
>> > > introducing a high definition version of the Wii, perhaps as early as
>> > > the end of 2010, in order to convert its large installed base into
>> > > true 'next-generation' households," Pachter said in June.
>>
>> > > How, if Nintendo intends to do this, would they market this new high-
>> > > definition device? Would they phase out the current Wii system, or
>> > > treat the upgrade much in the same vein as the DS,DS Liteand DSi?
>> > > Neither, Pachter told us — look at the Wii and Wii HD as the
>> > >PlayStation 2andPlayStation 3.
>>
>> > > "Of course, it's just speculation," Pachter prefaced in an e-mail to
>> > > EndSights, "but I see them having two consoles in the market at once,
>> > > more like PS2 and PS3. They will likely try to get consumers to
>> > > trade
>> > > up to the Wii Plus while still selling the Wii for $100 cheaper."
>>
>> > >http://www.endsights.com/2009/07/24/analyst-wii-and-wii-hd-will-be-si...
>>
>> > The comparison to thePlayStation 2andPlayStation 3doesn't make any
>> > sense unless the Wii HD is truly a next-generation version of the Wii
>> > with serious upgrades (aside from just going to 720p or 1080p).
>>
>> Wii HD's graphical horsepower is supposed to be MORE than just the Wii
>> (which is basicly a faster GameCube with more RAM) doing native HD
>> resolution. The leap from Wii to Wii HD is meant to be a leap like
>> going from GameBoy to GameBoy Advance or NES to SNES. or PS2 to
>> PS3.
>>
>> Nintendo has apparently increased its R&D spending massively, since
>> after the Wii was released. This is not proof, but a fairly credible
>> report, one NOT by Pachter:
>> http://www.whattheyplay.com/blog/2008/09/30/new-wii-due-by-2011/
>
> Ah...
>
> In that case, I say bring it on. The sooner, the better. Anything to
> get the next generation started. If it arrives by 2011, that will only
> be 5 years for Nintendo.
>
> And you know that if Microsoft and Sony believe this, they'll
> definitely be prepping their next generation consoles sooner rather
> than later.
>
> Suh-weet!
I would love that as well, only if the next gen is truly next gen. The 360
didn't seem like a huge upgrade over the Xbox. I'd still rather wait for
some real upgrades in graphics, AI and physics for the next gen, if it even
means that waiting for that kind of hardware to be cheap enough to make it
palatable for the average joe, so sales do well, would be just fine by me. I
want quality this time.
== 7 of 10 ==
Date: Tues 28 Jul 2009 15:41
From: The alMIGHTY N
On Jul 28, 5:15 pm, "Tom" <no...@nothere.com> wrote:
> "The alMIGHTY N" <natle...@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:13ad5b05-07c2-45cc-b201-d81c4ce6a351@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 27, 8:22 pm, parallax-scroll <parallaxscr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Jul 27, 4:38 pm, The alMIGHTY N <natle...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> > On Jul 27, 1:09 pm, parallax-scroll <parallaxscr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > > Analyst: Wii and Wii HD Will Be Similar to PS2/PS3
>
> >> > > A "Wii HD" has been one of the longest swirling rumors in the
> >> > > business, and one analyst in particular has touted its feasibility
> >> > > more than most: Wedbush Securites Analyst Michael Pachter. Late last
> >> > > month the analyst released a brief on the industry, where he
> >> > > predicted
> >> > > that a Wii HD would be coming:
>
> >> > > "We expect Nintendo to sustain [their] competitive advantage by
> >> > > introducing a high definition version of the Wii, perhaps as early as
> >> > > the end of 2010, in order to convert its large installed base into
> >> > > true 'next-generation' households," Pachter said in June.
>
> >> > > How, if Nintendo intends to do this, would they market this new high-
> >> > > definition device? Would they phase out the current Wii system, or
> >> > > treat the upgrade much in the same vein as the DS,DS Liteand DSi?
> >> > > Neither, Pachter told us — look at the Wii and Wii HD as the
> >> > >PlayStation 2andPlayStation 3.
>
> >> > > "Of course, it's just speculation," Pachter prefaced in an e-mail to
> >> > > EndSights, "but I see them having two consoles in the market at once,
> >> > > more like PS2 and PS3. They will likely try to get consumers to
> >> > > trade
> >> > > up to the Wii Plus while still selling the Wii for $100 cheaper."
>
> >> > >http://www.endsights.com/2009/07/24/analyst-wii-and-wii-hd-will-be-si...
>
> >> > The comparison to thePlayStation 2andPlayStation 3doesn't make any
> >> > sense unless the Wii HD is truly a next-generation version of the Wii
> >> > with serious upgrades (aside from just going to 720p or 1080p).
>
> >> Wii HD's graphical horsepower is supposed to be MORE than just the Wii
> >> (which is basicly a faster GameCube with more RAM) doing native HD
> >> resolution. The leap from Wii to Wii HD is meant to be a leap like
> >> going from GameBoy to GameBoy Advance or NES to SNES. or PS2 to
> >> PS3.
>
> >> Nintendo has apparently increased its R&D spending massively, since
> >> after the Wii was released. This is not proof, but a fairly credible
> >> report, one NOT by Pachter:
> >>http://www.whattheyplay.com/blog/2008/09/30/new-wii-due-by-2011/
>
> > Ah...
>
> > In that case, I say bring it on. The sooner, the better. Anything to
> > get the next generation started. If it arrives by 2011, that will only
> > be 5 years for Nintendo.
>
> > And you know that if Microsoft and Sony believe this, they'll
> > definitely be prepping their next generation consoles sooner rather
> > than later.
>
> > Suh-weet!
>
> I would love that as well, only if the next gen is truly next gen. The 360
> didn't seem like a huge upgrade over the Xbox.
??
The difference is day and night. Graphics are *significantly* better,
worlds are larger, performance has improved, load times have
decreased. Day and night.
> I'd still rather wait for
> some real upgrades in graphics, AI and physics for the next gen, if it even
> means that waiting for that kind of hardware to be cheap enough to make it
> palatable for the average joe, so sales do well, would be just fine by me. I
> want quality this time.
== 8 of 10 ==
Date: Tues 28 Jul 2009 15:42
From: The alMIGHTY N
On Jul 28, 1:43 pm, Doug Jacobs <djac...@rawbw.com> wrote:
> In alt.games.video.xbox parallax-scroll <parallaxscr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> The comparison to thePlayStation 2andPlayStation 3doesn't make any
> >> sense unless the Wii HD is truly a next-generation version of the Wii
> >> with serious upgrades (aside from just going to 720p or 1080p).
>
> > Wii HD's graphical horsepower is supposed to be MORE than just the Wii
> > (which is basicly a faster GameCube with more RAM) doing native HD
> > resolution. The leap from Wii to Wii HD is meant to be a leap like
> > going from GameBoy to GameBoy Advance or NES to SNES. or PS2 to
> > PS3.
>
> But that still makes no sense because the games themselves are still in
> 480p and not even widescreen. So unless the Wii HD can somehow do some
> fancy video magic to convert 4:3 480p to 16:9 1080p, I don't see what the
> big deal is here. Even upscaling from 4:3 480p to 4:3 1080p isn't that
> big of a deal. It'll look like an upscaled DVD which isn't as good as a
> native HD source.
Read the article. The Wii HD is supposed to be a next-generation
Nintendo console. The point is that it's *not* just an upgraded Wii.
It sounds like what I wanted right from the beginning, which was a
console with the features of the Wii but the graphical quality and
processing power of *at least* an Xbox.
== 9 of 10 ==
Date: Tues 28 Jul 2009 15:49
From: The alMIGHTY N
On Jul 28, 3:52 pm, Doug Jacobs <djac...@rawbw.com> wrote:
> In alt.games.video.xbox Abo <n...@spam.thanks> wrote:
>
> >> But that still makes no sense because the games themselves are still in
> >> 480p and not even widescreen. So unless the Wii HD can somehow do some
> >> fancy video magic to convert 4:3 480p to 16:9 1080p, I don't see what the
> >> big deal is here. Even upscaling from 4:3 480p to 4:3 1080p isn't that
> >> big of a deal. It'll look like an upscaled DVD which isn't as good as a
> >> native HD source.
>
> > Surely when the new console comes out games will be written specifically
> > for it? What you're seem to be saying is akin to the PS3 being pointless
> > because there'll be no improvement to the PS2 games you already have...
>
> That depends on the Wii HD's relationship with the existing Wii.
>
> Remember, the Wii has only been out for 3 years this Christmas. If the
> Wii HD is a completely new console that's meant to completely replace the
> original Wii and make it obsolete, that's a REALLY short hardware
> generation.
Did you read the later article posted by parallax-scroll? That article
specifically mentions a release "by 2011" so that would be a 4-year
generation for Nintendo, which isn't too bad considering the Wii is
very different from any other console that's been put forth.
> It also means that if this is due out in 2010, we should
> probably have seen something official from Nintendo by now. Look at the
> PSP-Go, for instance. It's not even replacing the PSP and we've known
> about it for over 6 months now (even though during 5 of them, it was just
> a rumor ;)
The PSP Go is supposed to come out this holiday season if I recall.
That means we'd only have had a year's heads up. Following that theme,
we shouldn't hear anything about the Wii HD until this holiday season
if it is indeed coming out in November 2010.
> So my assumption is that IF the Wii-HD is a real product - and I don't
> think it is - it would be meant to co-exist with the Wii, not replace it.
Again, read all of the articles he posted.
> This would make the Wii HD more like the DSi compared to the regular Wii
> or DS Lite. Some new hardware, some new capabilities, but essentially the
> same platform.
That's how I responded at first, but the second article posted
elaborates more on what is rumored.
> But this is where I wonder what would that mean for the games? Clearly
> the Wii-HD will have to be compatible with all existing Wii games. But
> what about future titles? Would we see Wii HD-only or HD-enhanced titles
> released, as we will see for the DSi? Will older titles get re-released
> in HD so that they finally support widescreen?
Would they have to be? Did all the PS2 and Xbox games get re-released
in HD for the PS3 and 360?
> Introducing a second console that's meant to "sit next to" an existing
> console is just going to confuse the public, and honestly, I don't see the
> point.
You're assuming that what you're saying is true, and it probably
isn't. Even if it were true, then your logic would dictate that the
DSi fails miserably yet it's succeeding in the market.
> If the average gamer is now in his late 20s, and not even 30% of
> gamers who own Gears Of War aren't using HD, what's the market for a Wii
> HD going to be? Yeah, given the choice I'd probably buy this Wii-HD if it
> came out, but I'd be just as happy with a plain old Wii - especially if
> there weren't going to be any HD games or re-releases for it.
??
Why would they release a Wii HD and not create any HD games for it?
You're now making absolutely no sense whatsoever. If it is a real
console, it will obviously have its own set of games.
== 10 of 10 ==
Date: Tues 28 Jul 2009 17:12
From: Miles Bader
The alMIGHTY N <natlee75@yahoo.com> writes:
> It sounds like what I wanted right from the beginning, which was a
> console with the features of the Wii but the graphical quality and
> processing power of *at least* an Xbox.
Hmm, the gamecube was on part with the original xbox... and the wii's at
least as powerful as the gc ... so you've already gotten your wish! hooray!
-Miles
--
The car has become... an article of dress without which we feel uncertain,
unclad, and incomplete. [Marshall McLuhan, Understanding Media, 1964]
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