rec.games.video.nintendo.wii
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Today's topics:
* Michael Pachter: Wii and Wii HD to be similar to PS2 / PS3 - 5 messages, 2
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http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.video.nintendo.wii/t/17376a8684dd4df2
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Michael Pachter: Wii and Wii HD to be similar to PS2 / PS3
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.video.nintendo.wii/t/17376a8684dd4df2
==============================================================================
== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs 30 Jul 2009 11:28
From: parallax-scroll
On Jul 28, 5:42 pm, The alMIGHTY N <natle...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jul 28, 1:43 pm, Doug Jacobs <djac...@rawbw.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > In alt.games.video.xbox parallax-scroll <parallaxscr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >> The comparison to thePlayStation 2andPlayStation 3doesn't make any
> > >> sense unless the Wii HD is truly a next-generation version of the Wii
> > >> with serious upgrades (aside from just going to 720p or 1080p).
>
> > > Wii HD's graphical horsepower is supposed to be MORE than just the Wii
> > > (which is basicly a fasterGameCubewith more RAM) doing native HD
> > > resolution. The leap from Wii to Wii HD is meant to be a leap like
> > > going from GameBoy to GameBoy Advance or NES to SNES. or PS2 to
> > > PS3.
>
> > But that still makes no sense because the games themselves are still in
> > 480p and not even widescreen. So unless the Wii HD can somehow do some
> > fancy video magic to convert 4:3 480p to 16:9 1080p, I don't see what the
> > big deal is here. Even upscaling from 4:3 480p to 4:3 1080p isn't that
> > big of a deal. It'll look like an upscaled DVD which isn't as good as a
> > native HD source.
>
> Read the article. The Wii HD is supposed to be a next-generation
> Nintendo console. The point is that it's *not* just an upgraded Wii.
> It sounds like what I wanted right from the beginning, which was a
> console with the features of the Wii but the graphical quality and
> processing power of *at least* an Xbox.
Yes I agree with you,
although, Wii HD should be roughly equal at least with the Xbox 360,
The current Wii is already roughly comparable to the original Xbox.
== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Mon 3 Aug 2009 17:32
From: The alMIGHTY N
On Jul 29, 8:54 am, "Tom" <no...@nothere.com> wrote:
> "The alMIGHTY N" <natle...@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:79128843-2ed7-40d5-aec3-373695846e6c@q35g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 28, 5:15 pm, "Tom" <no...@nothere.com> wrote:
> >> "The alMIGHTY N" <natle...@yahoo.com> wrote in
> >> messagenews:13ad5b05-07c2-45cc-b201-d81c4ce6a351@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> > On Jul 27, 8:22 pm, parallax-scroll <parallaxscr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> On Jul 27, 4:38 pm, The alMIGHTY N <natle...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> >> > On Jul 27, 1:09 pm, parallax-scroll <parallaxscr...@gmail.com>
> >> >> > wrote:
>
> >> >> > > Analyst: Wii and Wii HD Will Be Similar to PS2/PS3
>
> >> >> > > A "Wii HD" has been one of the longest swirling rumors in the
> >> >> > > business, and one analyst in particular has touted its feasibility
> >> >> > > more than most: Wedbush Securites Analyst Michael Pachter. Late
> >> >> > > last
> >> >> > > month the analyst released a brief on the industry, where he
> >> >> > > predicted
> >> >> > > that a Wii HD would be coming:
>
> >> >> > > "We expect Nintendo to sustain [their] competitive advantage by
> >> >> > > introducing a high definition version of the Wii, perhaps as early
> >> >> > > as
> >> >> > > the end of 2010, in order to convert its large installed base into
> >> >> > > true 'next-generation' households," Pachter said in June.
>
> >> >> > > How, if Nintendo intends to do this, would they market this new
> >> >> > > high-
> >> >> > > definition device? Would they phase out the current Wii system, or
> >> >> > > treat the upgrade much in the same vein as the DS,DS Liteand DSi?
> >> >> > > Neither, Pachter told us — look at the Wii and Wii HD as the
> >> >> > >PlayStation 2andPlayStation 3.
>
> >> >> > > "Of course, it's just speculation," Pachter prefaced in an e-mail
> >> >> > > to
> >> >> > > EndSights, "but I see them having two consoles in the market at
> >> >> > > once,
> >> >> > > more like PS2 and PS3. They will likely try to get consumers to
> >> >> > > trade
> >> >> > > up to the Wii Plus while still selling the Wii for $100 cheaper."
>
> >> >> > >http://www.endsights.com/2009/07/24/analyst-wii-and-wii-hd-will-be-si...
>
> >> >> > The comparison to thePlayStation 2andPlayStation 3doesn't make any
> >> >> > sense unless the Wii HD is truly a next-generation version of the
> >> >> > Wii
> >> >> > with serious upgrades (aside from just going to 720p or 1080p).
>
> >> >> Wii HD's graphical horsepower is supposed to be MORE than just the Wii
> >> >> (which is basicly a faster GameCube with more RAM) doing native HD
> >> >> resolution. The leap from Wii to Wii HD is meant to be a leap like
> >> >> going from GameBoy to GameBoy Advance or NES to SNES. or PS2 to
> >> >> PS3.
>
> >> >> Nintendo has apparently increased its R&D spending massively, since
> >> >> after the Wii was released. This is not proof, but a fairly credible
> >> >> report, one NOT by Pachter:
> >> >>http://www.whattheyplay.com/blog/2008/09/30/new-wii-due-by-2011/
>
> >> > Ah...
>
> >> > In that case, I say bring it on. The sooner, the better. Anything to
> >> > get the next generation started. If it arrives by 2011, that will only
> >> > be 5 years for Nintendo.
>
> >> > And you know that if Microsoft and Sony believe this, they'll
> >> > definitely be prepping their next generation consoles sooner rather
> >> > than later.
>
> >> > Suh-weet!
>
> >> I would love that as well, only if the next gen is truly next gen. The
> >> 360
> >> didn't seem like a huge upgrade over the Xbox.
>
> > ??
>
> > The difference is day and night. Graphics are *significantly* better,
> > worlds are larger, performance has improved, load times have
> > decreased. Day and night.
>
> For some games, maybe 'significantly', but not most. The 360 was touted as
> as being a quantum leap, and it wasn't anything like that. I see
> similarities in character models from og Xbox games to 360 games as an
> example.
If you hand top quality ingredients to someone and they make a
mediocre dish out of it, where does the blame lie?
Does the fact that Bejeweled Twist could have been done on a PC from
5+ years ago mean that PC hardware hasn't advanced at all?
> >> I'd still rather wait for
> >> some real upgrades in graphics, AI and physics for the next gen, if it
> >> even
> >> means that waiting for that kind of hardware to be cheap enough to make
> >> it
> >> palatable for the average joe, so sales do well, would be just fine by
> >> me. I
> >> want quality this time.
== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Mon 3 Aug 2009 17:42
From: The alMIGHTY N
On Jul 30, 2:22 pm, parallax-scroll <parallaxscr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 28, 5:41 pm, The alMIGHTY N <natle...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 28, 5:15 pm, "Tom" <no...@nothere.com> wrote:
>
> > > "The alMIGHTY N" <natle...@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:13ad5b05-07c2-45cc-b201-d81c4ce6a351@r24g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > > On Jul 27, 8:22 pm, parallax-scroll <parallaxscr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> On Jul 27, 4:38 pm, The alMIGHTY N <natle...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > >> > On Jul 27, 1:09 pm, parallax-scroll <parallaxscr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >> > > Analyst: Wii and Wii HD Will Be Similar to PS2/PS3
>
> > > >> > > A "Wii HD" has been one of the longest swirling rumors in the
> > > >> > > business, and one analyst in particular has touted its feasibility
> > > >> > > more than most: Wedbush Securites Analyst Michael Pachter. Late last
> > > >> > > month the analyst released a brief on the industry, where he
> > > >> > > predicted
> > > >> > > that a Wii HD would be coming:
>
> > > >> > > "We expect Nintendo to sustain [their] competitive advantage by
> > > >> > > introducing a high definition version of the Wii, perhaps as early as
> > > >> > > the end of 2010, in order to convert its large installed base into
> > > >> > > true 'next-generation' households," Pachter said in June.
>
> > > >> > > How, if Nintendo intends to do this, would they market this new high-
> > > >> > > definition device? Would they phase out the current Wii system, or
> > > >> > > treat the upgrade much in the same vein as the DS,DS Liteand DSi?
> > > >> > > Neither, Pachter told us — look at the Wii and Wii HD as the
> > > >> > >PlayStation 2andPlayStation 3.
>
> > > >> > > "Of course, it's just speculation," Pachter prefaced in an e-mail to
> > > >> > > EndSights, "but I see them having two consoles in the market at once,
> > > >> > > more like PS2 and PS3. They will likely try to get consumers to
> > > >> > > trade
> > > >> > > up to the Wii Plus while still selling the Wii for $100 cheaper."
>
> > > >> > >http://www.endsights.com/2009/07/24/analyst-wii-and-wii-hd-will-be-si...
>
> > > >> > The comparison to thePlayStation 2andPlayStation 3doesn't make any
> > > >> > sense unless the Wii HD is truly a next-generation version of the Wii
> > > >> > with serious upgrades (aside from just going to 720p or 1080p).
>
> > > >> Wii HD's graphical horsepower is supposed to be MORE than just the Wii
> > > >> (which is basicly a faster GameCube with more RAM) doing native HD
> > > >> resolution. The leap from Wii to Wii HD is meant to be a leap like
> > > >> going from GameBoy to GameBoy Advance or NES to SNES. or PS2 to
> > > >> PS3.
>
> > > >> Nintendo has apparently increased its R&D spending massively, since
> > > >> after the Wii was released. This is not proof, but a fairly credible
> > > >> report, one NOT by Pachter:
> > > >>http://www.whattheyplay.com/blog/2008/09/30/new-wii-due-by-2011/
>
> > > > Ah...
>
> > > > In that case, I say bring it on. The sooner, the better. Anything to
> > > > get the next generation started. If it arrives by 2011, that will only
> > > > be 5 years for Nintendo.
>
> > > > And you know that if Microsoft and Sony believe this, they'll
> > > > definitely be prepping their next generation consoles sooner rather
> > > > than later.
>
> > > > Suh-weet!
>
> > > I would love that as well, only if the next gen is truly next gen. The 360
> > > didn't seem like a huge upgrade over the Xbox.
>
> > ??
>
> > The difference is day and night. Graphics are *significantly* better,
> > worlds are larger, performance has improved, load times have
> > decreased. Day and night.
>
> > > I'd still rather wait for
> > > some real upgrades in graphics, AI and physics for the next gen, if it even
> > > means that waiting for that kind of hardware to be cheap enough to make it
> > > palatable for the average joe, so sales do well, would be just fine by me. I
> > > want quality this time.
>
> I think what he is saying, or at least what I would say is, Xbox 360
> was not as much of a leap over Xbox, as the PS2/Xbox generation was
> over the PS1/N64 gen.
>
> Yes the Xbox 360 was a large improvement over PS2/Xbox, but it wasn't
> the two orders of magnitude (100x) improvement that we saw from PS1/
> N64 to PS2/Xbox.
>
> The move to HD resolutions also robbed much of the additional
> horsepower and resources from the CPU / GPU that could have otherwise
> be put into improving the actual complexity & quality of the graphics,
> lighting, physics and animation,etc. even further.
Even if that is what he was saying, I would still disagree with the
statement. Gears of War is day and night better than anything on the
Xbox which was by far the most powerful system of the previous
generation. Call of Duty 4 is day and night better than anything on
the Xbox. Killzone 2 and Uncharted both smoke anything that was on the
PlayStation 2. There are obviously going to be games that don't look
that much better than games that came out for older hardware but
that's more due to decisions made by the developers to produce the
game that way.
I think the shift from generation to generation was relatively equal
in both cases. When I look at the best of each generation, I don't see
much of a difference from PS/SS/N64 to PS2/Xbox/GC and PS2/Xbox/NGC to
PS3/360/Wii.
== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Mon 3 Aug 2009 17:42
From: The alMIGHTY N
On Jul 30, 2:26 pm, parallax-scroll <parallaxscr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 28, 2:52 pm, Doug Jacobs <djac...@rawbw.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > In alt.games.video.xbox Abo <n...@spam.thanks> wrote:
>
> > >> But that still makes no sense because the games themselves are still in
> > >> 480p and not even widescreen. So unless the Wii HD can somehow do some
> > >> fancy video magic to convert 4:3 480p to 16:9 1080p, I don't see what the
> > >> big deal is here. Even upscaling from 4:3 480p to 4:3 1080p isn't that
> > >> big of a deal. It'll look like an upscaled DVD which isn't as good as a
> > >> native HD source.
>
> > > Surely when the new console comes out games will be written specifically
> > > for it? What you're seem to be saying is akin to the PS3 being pointless
> > > because there'll be no improvement to the PS2 games you already have...
>
> > That depends on the Wii HD's relationship with the existing Wii.
>
> > Remember, the Wii has only been out for 3 years this Christmas. If the
> > Wii HD is a completely new console that's meant to completely replace the
> > original Wii and make it obsolete, that's a REALLY short hardware
> > generation. It also means that if this is due out in 2010, we should
> > probably have seen something official from Nintendo by now. Look at thePSP-Go, for instance. It's not even replacing thePSPand we've known
> > about it for over 6 months now (even though during 5 of them, it was just
> > a rumor ;)
>
> > So my assumption is that IF the Wii-HD is a real product - and I don't
> > think it is - it would be meant to co-exist with the Wii, not replace it.
>
> > This would make the Wii HD more like the DSi compared to the regular Wii
> > orDS Lite. Some new hardware, some new capabilities, but essentially the
> > same platform.
>
> > But this is where I wonder what would that mean for the games? Clearly
> > the Wii-HD will have to be compatible with all existing Wii games. But
> > what about future titles? Would we see Wii HD-only or HD-enhanced titles
> > released, as we will see for the DSi? Will older titles get re-released
> > in HD so that they finally support widescreen?
>
> > Introducing a second console that's meant to "sit next to" an existing
> > console is just going to confuse the public, and honestly, I don't see the
> > point. If the average gamer is now in his late 20s, and not even 30% of
> > gamers who own Gears Of Wararen't using HD, what's the market for a Wii
> > HD going to be? Yeah, given the choice I'd probably buy this Wii-HD if it
> > came out, but I'd be just as happy with a plain old Wii - especially if
> > there weren't going to be any HD games or re-releases for it.
>
> > --
> > It's not broken. It's...advanced.
>
> What I expect is, Wii HD to be a true next-gen Wii 2, not something
> that comes mid-generation with modestly enhanced capabilities, but
> basicly being the same product. I expect Wii HD (Wii 2) to arrive in
> 2011 or 2012 to replace the current Wii, and while it'll be backwards
> compatible with current Wii games, the purpose of it will be to play
> new games that are not possible on the current Wii.
I hope you're right.
== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Mon 3 Aug 2009 17:48
From: The alMIGHTY N
On Jul 30, 2:28 pm, parallax-scroll <parallaxscr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 28, 5:42 pm, The alMIGHTY N <natle...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 28, 1:43 pm, Doug Jacobs <djac...@rawbw.com> wrote:
>
> > > In alt.games.video.xbox parallax-scroll <parallaxscr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >> The comparison to thePlayStation 2andPlayStation 3doesn't make any
> > > >> sense unless the Wii HD is truly a next-generation version of the Wii
> > > >> with serious upgrades (aside from just going to 720p or 1080p).
>
> > > > Wii HD's graphical horsepower is supposed to be MORE than just the Wii
> > > > (which is basicly a fasterGameCubewith more RAM) doing native HD
> > > > resolution. The leap from Wii to Wii HD is meant to be a leap like
> > > > going from GameBoy to GameBoy Advance or NES to SNES. or PS2 to
> > > > PS3.
>
> > > But that still makes no sense because the games themselves are still in
> > > 480p and not even widescreen. So unless the Wii HD can somehow do some
> > > fancy video magic to convert 4:3 480p to 16:9 1080p, I don't see what the
> > > big deal is here. Even upscaling from 4:3 480p to 4:3 1080p isn't that
> > > big of a deal. It'll look like an upscaled DVD which isn't as good as a
> > > native HD source.
>
> > Read the article. The Wii HD is supposed to be a next-generation
> > Nintendo console. The point is that it's *not* just an upgraded Wii.
> > It sounds like what I wanted right from the beginning, which was a
> > console with the features of the Wii but the graphical quality and
> > processing power of *at least* an Xbox.
>
> Yes I agree with you,
> although, Wii HD should be roughly equal at least with the Xbox 360,
> The current Wii is already roughly comparable to the original Xbox.
You think? I'm a little skeptical of that but maybe it's just because
nobody has really taken advantage of the hardware.
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